chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet

He felt doing more blood tests would only cause me more discomfort and false hope. During the examination, sonographers need to keep the screen in a position that gives them a good view of your baby. The doctor explained the options I had to manage my miscarriage. At the time the same thing had, exactly the same thing had happened to my friend a month before, and her scan was absolutely fine. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). In some very serious rare cases, where no treatment is possible, the baby will die soon after it is born or during pregnancy. 12/12/2012 22:41. I let out an animal scream and [wife] kind of leapt onto me on the bed. As two youngest siblings, we were both permanently stuck in the irresponsible, childish role. It was interesting - well it was fantastic to see this fetus and to see this child that was yours that was horribly ill - but you didn't really get much opportunity to see that because the consultant was more about measurements and all sorts of blood flow and various other screens coming up. It felt so wrong. Getting through the 20 week scan - My BabyManual How was that scan different from the dating scan? So we hid in our house. It was positive, and I felt elated. I remember thinking, 'that doesn't look quite right'. He's now had the all clear and is wriggling round on . Can't seem to find info on the Internet. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. No one else felt him kick. No, we really didn't, with hindsight we probably should have, but not at all, it never occurred to us to be worried about it. So I trusted him. And at that point I don't think we, I don't think we realised that there might have to be a decision, because we'd talked about it with, with Down's and the other possible problems, but at this point it was, well okay what can be done to fix the problem - because yes the heart's not developing properly but there must be something we can do. She describes having to make a . To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. I managed to tell my mum, who said she would come with us to the hospital. I know it sounds odd that you want to hear that it's wrong, but you, you know it's wrong, and you, you want to be reassured either that it's okay or is there something seriously wrong. I wrote a few things down last night when we were trying to go over things, just to remind myself. How common is it to find anomolies at the 20 week scan? - Netmums Read full disclaimer. See you in -. Baby loss support We, I was with my mum, and they scanned and found choroid plexus cysts on the brain, which is just a mark, it's a marker on the brain, it's a, what they call a 'soft marker'. 'Yes, if that's okay with you,' kind of thing, like you do. They sort of drew some diagrams, and they said, 'But we need to refer you to a specialist to confirm the diagnosis'. But he was not sure. 2022. As I was called for my scan I was nervous and emotional. Seeing your baby on a screen can be really exciting. We went in, had a scan, I can't remember the exact sequence of events because the baby was still in the wrong position. But worse was to come. This publication is licensed under the terms of the Open Government Licence v3.0 except where otherwise stated. That was the first time I had heard him cry. . We'll make an appointment with the senior sonographer, the consultant at the local hospital, and she'll do your scan and she'll be able to tell you more things'. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see 'Resources'). A few people recalled how frightened and alarmed they became when they sensed that the atmosphere in the scanning room changed in an instant from 'jokey' to serious when the baby's problems were detected. I remember thinking, 'Gosh' I now know it was a girl, I didn't know that then, that, 'She looks just like her brother'. It is extremely rare for these pregnancies to reach term as they typically spontaneously miscarry early in pregnancy. Sometimes women were told that the sonographer had found a 'marker' or sign of a chromosomal condition and had to wait for an amniocentesis to confirm the findings. You have accepted additional cookies. Eventually she got the measurements she wanted. So, in the end, we said we would arrange our own funeral. But now that's changed. Yeah - in, stomach, out. It was all going wrong and I wanted to get as far away from the hospital as possible. But you could see there was something wrong? I thought surely everything is ok, as they couldn't detect twins the week before. (See. Soon, the doctor came and inserted the tablets that would induce labour. I couldn't have the added responsibility for changing his mind. I feel empty and incomplete. Everywhere you look, there are happy, fat, smug pregnant women. It went from bad, to worse, to worse, to dire, then to better. It took 20 minutes to push him out. Sometimes it is difficult to get good views of a baby. Some people want to find out if their baby has one of the 11 conditions and some do not. Eventually, the doctor finished the scan and said that some of the baby's measurements were very small. It was another consultant, who said, "I'm afraid I have some bad news - your baby has Down's syndrome." And I remember, the first thing I remember when something might be wrong, was I saw, I finally, we finally saw an image of the skull on the screen, and there appeared to be a sort of black hole shape in the middle. She describes having to make a momentous decision very quickly, and the ferment of relief, guilt and grief that followed, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. And so this one can't tell you anything, it's pictures, you're going, you're going to see your baby, you're going to get pictures. And of course some other measurements she needed to take like the width of the skull, which she couldn't take because the fetus was in the wrong position. Well, at the regional hospital it was a 3-D scan. I hated my body and hated every feeling I was having. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of such a late termination, but had assumed it would mean some kind of operation. And I, my husband and I both ran our own business at the time so we were desperate to get back and do some work, and things were going really well, so.. I was becoming numb to the whole process. My partner watched the baby come out, and for a split second I saw a look of joy on his face. I felt empty, scared, guilty and incredibly heartbroken. That he was small. There was cause for concern. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. The doctor wanted to do another blood test to confirm a significant drop in my hormone levels. I want to stop having such horrible thoughts. And how wrong could they be? It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan. The only thing you're thinking now is the birth, and what if something goes wrong in the birth? The weeks since that day have been very weird. So and you could see the exomphalus, this little pouch, which was obviously just the intestines where they are. It's quite common, perhaps 1 in 10 they find these, and within a few weeks they disappear. You do not have to have the scan. The people who did know what was going on seemed far too sure that we were doing the right thing, that there was really no choice to be made. BabyCenter. She brought up a picture of the heart on the screen. And the local hospital wanted to send us off to the regional hospital to actually confirm that, and were not really prepared to say at that time that there was something very seriously wrong. And as, and as soon as I saw the pictures of the scan, having had two normal pregnancies, even I could see that there was a marked contrast between this pregnancy and the pictures that I'd had previously. This short video explains screening for 11 physical conditions in pregnancy. I still feel guilty, I still cry at random times. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. Well send you a link to a feedback form. The rarest scenario is that the baby is severely ill and choices will need to be made. Smiling at myself and picturing me and Sam becoming parents. And I thought that if I were faced with the possibility of having an amnio, hours of discussion would follow - I would spend days mulling it over. As I waited for the doctor back on the EPU unit. Instead, I had to raise a glass of water to my mouth, take a swig and swallow the tablet. Never lacking a sense of the dramatic, it felt as if we shared the responsibility for the terrible, dirty act that we had committed. I just want to be normal again. I believed at this point I had miscarried, they wanted me to come back I'm for a follow up scan. Try to relax and take it easy. I was experiencing some light bleeding for the past few days. And, it does not occur to you in the slightest. We saw the consultant, who was reassuring, saying that he would rescan me and was sure everything would be fine. She wanted to have a look at the skull, which was the main thing, but she couldn't see it from where the baby was. Perhaps because we are alone in this, it has brought my partner and me very close. Again the legs were quite twisted, they said that the baby's sternum was very short - things weren't in proportion you know - the head was quite large, the neck was very thick, there wasn't really like a neck as such it was just things were kind of - there were lots of things that obviously the consultant could see that we weren't aware of. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. After that I got, I, it was about in, in 19-, hang on a minute, 2001 I got pregnant again, slightly unexpectedly. But even if I was there, I still think I would have wanted to see the detail on the scan. Is it the same scan or is it the same equipment? I tried not to sit still for too long, because then I became too aware of the little thing inside me. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. I was booked back in to discuss management options, if nothing had happened. The chances that anything bad will be discovered are v v small. I wasn't ready to make a decision straight away, and I was told I could call them in the morning. I was disgusted - disgusted that such a tablet existed, let alone that I should have to take it. We were denying him his life. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. So we gave up and said we'd arrange the funeral ourselves. I was then told yet again bad news. The contractions started very quickly and within an hour my waters had broken. 18-20 week scans provide clinicians with more information than earlier scans because by18 weeks a healthy baby should be larger and better developed. Yeah, yeah. We talked all night and thanked God for crap television. My partner tried to remain calm, and at my request rang my mum. So instead, I was advised to go home and let nature take its course. Sam followed and I broke down. And so we talked about it euphemistically, never saying the word "research". Nice people shouldn't hear about what we'd done. And for that whole time, my partner and I were both crying uncontrollably. I had never imagined having an amniocentesis. I had no idea if we were doing the "right" thing. I felt sad, but not the complete devastation of the last scan as they had seen a change of some sort. When I told him what had happened, he refused to believe anything was wrong and said he'd sort it out when he came home. On January 18, my baby was born, at 23 weeks - a little boy. He looked fine. I tried to show him the notes and the photos. All my plans were beginning to fall down. It was over. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. But it's bloody hard being miserable the whole time. However painful and traumatic the labour was, it was better than what would happen at the end of it. I was told they needed to do a blood test to get a bench mark of my hormone levels. Finally, Monday came and we went back to the hospital. After preparing myself to face having to take the medication. My partner went out with him, wanting to see him. So we went home, me to rest in an attempt to prevent miscarriage, my partner to reassure us both. And nothing prepares you at all. Abortion has never raised any moral dilemmas for me and I am an atheist, so there are no religious issues. We decided that we wanted medication to help me. My heart goes out to you OP. And attribute some blame to them. You may like someone to come with you to the scan appointment. Usually, sonographers will ask a senior sonographer colleague to confirm findings and this should be done immediately. The doctor didn't come. Chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet No one else ever met the object of my grief. My son's congenital heart defect was detected at the 20 week scan and he had 2 other markers, no . I think what everyone is saying is that most likely outcome is that there are no problems at all. And this baby sort of floated, and occasionally there was a slight movement, but it was very you could almost see that he was really poorly just from looking at the screen. Despite this new discovery, the sonographer was still concerned. Our position in our families has shifted. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. Registered office: Nicholas House, 3 Laurence Pountney Hill, London, EC4R 0BB. Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. . Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. I want to be happy again. Next most likely (but actually in the minority) they identify something which whilst not 100% healthy is treatable. It's, I mean you can't tell from these scans what you're looking at really, but I remember thinking, 'it just doesn't look quite right' or something, but I didn't give it much thought. Sam reassured me, but the guilt had hit me along with the feeling that our world was falling apart. I want to be nice again. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. And everybody knows and everything is right. He bluntly told me, he wasn't interested in whatever was seen before, he was only going to go by what he saw that day. I had hope that the little bumps inside me were fighting just as much as I was to stay with me. He then told us what the prognosis would mean for the child. Not a good sign in a hospital consulting room. The scan was inconclusive, but the size of my little bump was measuring a lot smaller than it should have for 10 weeks. And then, so I went to my next scan, which was the 20-week abnormality scan, and we took our first child with us, I think he was 17 months old at the time. The next day, it was confirmed that my bloods had again dropped. Very occasionally this second scan cannot be completed, for example because: In this case you will not be offered another screening scan but you will offered an all over physical examination for your baby after birth. We strongly advise readers not to take drugs that are not prescribed by your qualified healthcare provider. For example, the babys brain, kidneys, internal organs or bones may not have developed properly. I didn't want to go through anymore scans. We need to have your opinion'. It is impossible to escape them and each one underlines your loss. I then found that soft markers means 'vague unproven suggestion of a link', and that echogenic locii are small concentrations of calcium which are incredibly common and harmless. Limitations of the 18-20 week scan Apologise for somehow doubting their right to be in this world. We're still not at the end of our journey, but we're much further along. And my partner and I would have a completely different life from the one we'd imagined. Reading individual, real-life experiences can be a helpful resource, but it is never a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment from a qualified health care provider. I did think it was a bit strange that she wasn't talking, and then she sort of said, 'Oh, I think there's a problem. Bad news at 20 week scan, please help. | Mumsnet No one else but my partner saw how similar he was to our son. I travelled to work that day feeling amazing. DS had 2 soft markers: talipes (club foot) and 'echogenic locii' somewhere - heart I think. But I still didn't want to be the one who stopped this baby's chance to live. Some say this estimate is really below the reality, and the out-of-pocket average costs are higher. And the doctor - because it was a doctor rather then just the, a sonographer or whatever the correct term is - was scanning my wife, and she hovered over the heart of the baby and said, 'Oh there's the heart, we'll come back to that'. Back on the EPU unit, a doctor organised for me to be admitted into the ward, to take the medical management under supervision as the sac was now to big for me to safely miscarry on my own at home. This scan takes place between 18 weeks and 20 weeks 6 days of pregnancy and is commonly called the 20-week scan. I know it is still early days. Rather sharply, my partner tried to explain. I think there might be a problem'. Let a mum know you're thinking of them send one of our personalised Mother's Day cards today, Home My partner's face was lit up, seeing the baby for the first time. I remained positive, we researched lots of cases of mistaken dates, inconclusive scans, and compared them to our situation; scrutinising everything to try and believe it was all one big misunderstanding. However, a few hours later there was another shift change. Not marginalised into being a victim. On the third day, we got a phone call. We had to discuss what we wanted to do with the little body after delivery. Actually you could tell from the brain development as he scanned up through the chambers of the brain, that one quarter of the brain, one chamber was not evident. We would terminate the pregnancy. And I can, the words that the scanning member of staff used, "Everything's fine", will stay with me forever. I was another one who did get bad news at the 20 week scan. Christmas came and went in a blur of emotion, it felt so wrong to be celebrating when we were in such turmoil. So I was a bit ignorant of the kind of things, you know, what the scans were really doing - maybe it was, a bit na've I think. Some people had underestimated how serious any abnormality found at this stage could be for the baby. Hugely upset that to think that the baby was so poorly. Mumsnet carries some affiliate marketing links, so if you buy something through our posts, we may get a small share of the sale (more details here). For many other women, the 18-20 week scan was the point at which they discovered the baby had serious problems. So I was, they couldn't actually finish the scan then, the baby was moving around too much, so they couldn't scan the heart and the stomach. But she told us, she told us, she gave us some more detail, she said, 'There's this, there's a big gap in the brain where there shouldn't be'. And as soon as she said those words, both of us were like, 'Well what's wrong?'. And they took me into another room. I had to stop myself from yanking out the needle. For women who have been given distressing news about their baby during the scan, there should be a health professional available to provide immediate support. Sam squeezed my hand and told me it was ok. It was horrible. The screen may be directly facing them or at an angle. Away you go'. chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. When I think about how long it took them to deliberate ultimately, maybe not, but it just felt like a bit of a fast food situation, didn't it? He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". He looked excited. Because, when you're angry with the world for dealing you such a shit time, you begin to hate the people who populate it. I didn't sleep that night I don't think. Except for the persistent, nagging doubts. I broke down and started hitting my disgusting body that had done this. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests, Ending the pregnancy for family & personal reasons, Deciding whether to see, hold and name the baby, Photographs and other mementoes of the baby, Saying goodbye to the baby - services & funerals, Coping with bereavement - women's experiences, Coping with bereavement - men's experiences, Men's ideas about their role in ending a pregnancy. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me - Tommy's By 7pm, I still hadn't delivered the baby. How common is it to get bad news at 20 week scan? | Mumsnet I popped out from work, telling my boss I'd be back in half an hour. The ultimate betrayal. That he - I think I was 21 weeks and 3 days, and he was coming up at 19 weeks and 4 days, or something like that. This was a ray of hope for us. At first the closeness came through a sense of guilt. Specialist scans Originally I hadn't wanted to go down that road. If one of the conditions is found or suspected, the sonographer may ask for a second opinion from another member of staff. I then had to wait in the room along with many other patients for an hour so they could observe me. Our nightmare began when I went for my 20-week scan. Public Health England (PHE) created this information on behalf of the NHS. But other than that everything was fine. We talked about the different sorts of pain relief I could have and I opted for a morphine drip, which I could control. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. Some things can be seen more clearly than others. Possibly with hindsight we could have been more worried about it, but was probably a good thing we weren't, because we weren't worried about anything basically. This publication is available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/screening-tests-for-you-and-your-baby/11-physical-conditions-20-week-scan. And I felt like a murderer. And you know, we were laughing and joking. And that was scanning up from the above the head, then you were coming up through the child's head, so you were seeing the chambers in the brain, sort of it was evident in all four chambers of the brain, then suddenly one chamber was empty. I was becoming numb to the whole process. It felt like a lifetime to reach our 12-week-scan. Where we were living then at the time you only had a scan at 20 weeks. It was sick. Just wonder whether anyone had ever been told? So it was, there was very, very little movement from the baby because I remembered first time round by that stage, you know, that the baby was quite big and it moved around a lot at a later scan. And it was just a bit of a shock because it's not really what you want to hear - you don't really expect that. By this time, we were tired. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. There's nothing wrong, you know, we've had all the tests, everything's fine,' and being very upbeat about it all. We bought a two tests that evening (quite lucky as I messed the first one up!). (See 'Resources'). You've had a scan, you've had the blood tests, you've been good. At first, I still had to deal with the physical implications of having given birth. So had to come back in a week's time for a scan, which again is quite a common thing I found out. This is not what I imagined pregnancy to feel like', Baby Loss Awareness Week - Voice Five - Bryony Seabrook. We've joined the grown-ups and we both feel very different. Last reviewed July 2017. But I was struggling mentally with the anguish, grief and endless hospital visits. The doctor or midwife looking after you will let you know before you come. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? It is a noise that will stay with me for ever. We went, I went in to the scanning room and they're quite bland facially anyway, whether everything's fine or not they just look at the screen to start off with and do measurements but I very quickly realised that the woman's demeanour wasn't, even for a bland face, was concerning. When he came back, he agreed on a termination. This article was amended on 24 November 2015 to anonymise the writer. Being generous and kind generally happens only when you're happy. I wasn't unduly worried at all. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. At this point it wasn't looking great. If you are not sure, you can contact them and ask. Not surprisingly, people aren't quite sure how to deal with me. I ran into the bedroom to tell Sam, who was ecstatic. Could you tell? Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier diagnostic tests (e.g. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and . But my brain had been given a train of thought that was impossible to stop. The sonographer told me to take the notes, and the scan photos with me so they could review them also. Dont worry we wont send you spam or share your email address with anyone. She endured many agonising rounds of scans and tests, and unfortunately met with some unhelpful attitudes from some healthcare professionals. So he went out for a walk. The scan will look in detail at your babys bones, heart, brain, spinal cord, face, kidneys and abdomen. So choroid plexus cysts on their own, no problem, but if there's something else wrong, then that's a problem. We thought it would all be over very quickly but, in fact, it was another 11 hours before the baby was delivered. It was just sort of deadpan faces, very serious looks, someone else coming to check. Tears started to roll down my face. It will take only 2 minutes to fill in. I just feel very unlucky. See more information about the 20-week ultrasound scan. We understand the real meaning of "shit happens". I've been incredibly lucky to have such amazing support from Sam, my mum, and close friends and family. I have a terrible hatred of pregnant women and a new respect for infertile couples. . The first result, which tells you if the baby has Down's syndrome, is ready in three days, but the other chromosomal problems cannot be eliminated for up to three weeks. The scan will find about half (50%) of those babies who have heart defects. And I assumed my partner would feel the same. I noticed the box of tissues on the table. I had my little leaflet, printed off leaflet about choroid plexus cysts. It was exactly like the labour I had with my first child. As I left the room to compose myself. . We spent the next few weeks in a happy bubble. I couldn't work out what was taking so long and put it down to the doctor being young and inexperienced. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". I did. The thing that I have a very strong memory of is this child's face in amazing detail. You will then be asked to raise your top to your chest and lower your skirt or trousers to your hips. I went home feeling crushed; Sam and I both felt helpless. And that was a terrible moment to be sort of hanging on, waiting. A long process of blood tests, scans, doctors and hospitals. Last updated July 2017. But no. You can change your cookie settings at any time. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. All my instincts were to protect my belly, yet here I was allowing someone to stick a huge needle into it. I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. The same unique expression he had when he saw our two year old born. My wife turned the screen away from her. So carried on with the plans, and, you know, planning for the, another baby to come along and then we went for a 20- week scan which is obviously the big one and very exciting, seeing all the arms and legs and once again everything was going fine, 'Look here's the baby, here's the length of baby'.

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